Ghost Hunting = Energy Talking ?!

THEORY ALERT 🚨 FOLKS

What if (speaking from a religious background) there is a Heaven and Hell BUT in a different realm? And there are multiple realms here and this is one that we all are currently on. 

Stay with Us —

Which would kind of justify the whole energy thing ya’ know, energy cannot be created neither destroyed which ties back into US because we’re Energy (regardless of what you believe in)…. SO, when/ or if you do have a ghost experience or become investigators such as our guest: Toledo Ohio Ghost Hunters Society T.O.G.H.S., wouldn’t that mean were just communicating with this realms “memory” of that individuals’ energy ?

WHY ELSE WOULD THIS BE POSSIBLE ? Why would death even be a thing if we literally just stay here but be invisible this time around? 

What’s your thoughts?? Let Us know 👇🏻

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Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:02

I'm the ghost. Okay. Ghost with the most. What's up, guys? It is the Curious Folks podcast. And we have brought on the best in Ohio ghost hunters.

SPEAKER_03 0:19

Please introduce yourself. I don't know about the best. There'd be a lot of groups out there that would have a difference of my name's Harold C. John, one of the founders of Tulio Ghost Hunter Society, and this is my partner Butch.

SPEAKER_04 0:32

Um Butch Leon, one of the other founders, uh, we actually founded this group in an ice rink out of Zamboni.

SPEAKER_03 0:41

So that's where it started. I was the manager of the facility and he was a referee, and he threw me completely out of the game and out of the building. Well, anyways, we struck up a conversation. It wasn't the nicest conversation after the game, but we and then we well shortly after we found uh we shared the same interest in the paranormal. Yep. So been been over 30 years for him and I. And I love that. I love this. Well, you know, here's the thing. I had been an investigator prior to that. I grew up in a haunted house, and we could share some of those stories with you if you want. But my belief in the paranormal became very real at probably eight years, ten years old. By 15, I had started investigating. I did a lot of studying and mentored under people, but I don't want to bring up Lady Searcy right now, but I she was a great teacher, along with Dr. Ken from Columbus, just a ton of people that got me, you know, on the right track. Um hauntings are very real, they're rare, but they're very real, and I believe to this day, I grew up in a haunted house. And I thought at the time, if I may, um, and I was just telling Mike the difference between a ghost hunter and a paranormal investigator. I'm constantly lecturing and telling stories. If I bore you, Mike just say, Harold, you're you're boring me. It's kind of like sitting there for eight hours with headphones on and not getting anything. You talk about boredom. Um, anyways, uh I knew it was real, uh and I felt at that time I could help other people that were experiencing the same things that I was, um, and didn't know where to reach out. And back then there wasn't all this social media, so a lot of it was word of mouth or telephone call or something, so we just knowing who you were. I believed them. That was the first step. Um, I had a very Catholic background. I think that served me well over the years. Um, I truly believed that I could help people by believing them, taking a look at their place, listening to the story, and seeing if we could solve it. And um, most times we could. It was later on, Northwest Ohio Research Group is when I started as a young man, when I got, I hate to say it, maybe 25 or probably 30 years old, come across Butch, and we both founded the Tuleo High Ghost Hunters. And I think because we're same mic-line, uh well uh like-minded. We uh we're not really ghost hunters, although we've been doing a lot of ghost hunting the last couple years because we're older now, we're having fun, and uh, but I think we're paranormal investigators trying to reach out and help people that were you know having problems at their home.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

And would you like to explain the difference between a ghost hunter and an investigator?

SPEAKER_03 3:35

Real quick without a big lecture again. If I start lecturing, just say Harold, tone it down. No, please. It was like I was telling Mike earlier. If Mike and I booked an investigation at the Mansfield Reformatory this weekend, we would get there along with 30 other people, pay $100 for whatever it is. And I'm not saying anything bad, I guess just a lot of places are going, and I call them pay the plays, if that makes any sense. Um, you pay a fee and you get to walk a legendary haunted location, whether it's haunted or not. Um, but we go there, we we talk to uh our tour guide, John, and John will tell us uh about Bob, who's in cell block 375, and he slams the door, there's a smell of cigarette smoke, um, some growling involved. And I was just teasing Mike. Him and I will run before we get there, before you and Butch can get there. Um, Mike and I are in there about half an hour, and Mike smells the cigarette smoke, hears the growl, and then the door slams on us. Uh, we high-fibe each other because we captured it all and we saw something paranormal. We get out of there at one or two o'clock in the morning, we stop for a cold beer on the way home and a big steak, and it's over. That is it. The next day we get more grass back into life as normal. A paranormal investigation takes Amber, our research, to research a location, back here, our case manager, talk to the client, talk to the family, tons of interviews. Um, before we even arrive on location to do an investigation, you could have 30, 40 hours involved. But you do the baseline readings, check the windows, the plumbing, the electrical floorboards, everything that could make something seem paranormal and rule them out. Um but you're so smart and convenient that you do that actually. Right, and then we and then we sit down with the clients to go over the haunties. If we do do an investigation, I was telling them earlier. Let's just say we do a five-hour investigation. You got six recorders running, that's 30 hours of audio you got to listen to. And I mean, listen to it, be fair to the client. Don't walk away or go get a drink of water, set the headphones down. You gotta listen every second. That might be the second you miss something. Same with the video, 34 hours of video you gotta watch. Don't blink, because that might be when something moved. Um, and then so you got 100 hours in. What if then you do find something that you cannot recreate or debunk? Which, if you can, you got to rule it out, but you can't recreate, you can't debunk this, and it's you know in your heart it's paranormal, that's what you bring to the client. We're not here to scare the client. And investigation is the last thing we want to do, actually. We're in their house talking to dead people, and guess what? We get to go home. Uh they don't, they are home. That's when the case truly begins. So you could have 80 or 100 hours, and before you even get a result of what you're gonna do next, if the place is on it, what do we do about it? That's when we can bring in our our psychic medium, uh Dana.

SPEAKER_05 6:40

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 6:41

What?

SPEAKER_05 6:42

I read about that on your uh website, and I immediately went, oh my gosh, does she like actually do psychic readings on people?

SPEAKER_03 6:53

Not not really. I mean, whether you know or not, my Aunt Patricia is Lady Bonadia, she's a high priestess. Psychic meetings in the paranormal runs deep into my family. Um, and we can talk about all that later. Dana will go in and do a walk around, get the feel, see see if while our investigators are documented, they don't communicate with each other. We want to see if what you're capturing, what you're going through kind of matches up with what Dana has done a reading on. That makes sense, yeah. And we got we got Jason that's uh working with all of our equipment. We've got a big tech table over, and I do like some of the new equipment. I'm old school, I think a good video camera and a good audio query is all you need. But um, Jason will bring all the bells and whistles and lights and all the things you see on ghost hunters now. Um, and we have our videographer, Jerry, that's filming every minute. Uh, we got Jeff that's video, he's a videographer too, does just about everything for our group. So when we started this group, we built a bigger group. Does that make sense? And everybody is very good at what they do. Not that I won't mind your business and you don't mind my business, but we work well together. And to get a true case study, a thorough investigation has got to be done using the proper people, the proper equipment, proper procedures. Um rule out anything you can recreate or debunk. If you're left with, and Butch and I have been through this a hundred times. Oh my god, this was real. It's unbelievable. And I was telling you earlier, it's I I love it when people are skeptic. I don't like it when they're cynical. I don't that's if you're cynical, get you walk away from the field, dude. Find a different hobby. Does that make sense? Um, and we've been doing this for years. Not once have we ever charged a dollar for anything we do. There's so much time and energy and professional that's involved in this. You're not here to make a dollar. I mean, how can I come into your house and go, well, this place is haunted? That'll cost you 50.

SPEAKER_04 9:00

Right.

SPEAKER_03 9:00

I mean, it doesn't work that way.

SPEAKER_04 9:02

If you if you see somebody that wants uh think they're gonna come in and say this is gonna cost you, get get rid of them. Yeah, walk away.

SPEAKER_03 9:12

And and that's the thing I I really can't bitch about pay and play anymore because we've been yoked with that as we get older. Um, but that's what that is. This place is haunted. Give me your your money and you can enter.

SPEAKER_05 9:27

No, I know, and that actually drives me nuts. And it's been like a dilemma that I keep running into.

SPEAKER_03 9:33

Destiny, it's growing and growing. And now listen, there's some great places. I've investigated the Collingwoods Art Center, that's the real McCoy, and all the money is going to restoration and going to a good cause. Um, so I belie I believe in a lot of them. Um, some of them not so much. It's it's like when Butch and I started, there was four or five groups. We're one of the longest standing uh paranormal investigation teams in Northwest Ohio. I want to say that lightly because there might have been a couple more, but we're one of the longest ones. There's a reason for that. There's a reason that we're still here. Uh Butch and I are much older now, and I'm not gonna lie to you, our private investigations have um have dropped. We're just too old to keep up. Our group is still working strong. They're working on a case in uh in temperance, Michigan right now. That could be very real. Uh I'm still very involved in it. I mean, you know, I'm kind of a I don't want to say a control freak, but I like to be kept abreast of what's going on. So there's some cases still, and we have uh a business that we're gonna be doing here surely that we've done before that that is haunted as well. We've picked up some good stuff there. I just I still say we're private investigators, not paranormal investigators. That took me 10 minutes to get that out, right?

SPEAKER_05 10:53

You know what? And I love that we got an answer though, so hey, we can't be mad at it. Sometimes there's answers, sometimes there's just no answers. Hey, that is the spiritual world, right? Uh, but I do want to drop this at you and see what your thoughts are. So I have multiple epiphanies a day. Don't know why.

SPEAKER_03 11:14

Bless my maybe you're a beacon and maybe you're a lighthouse. Yeah, what your lighthouse sensitive.

SPEAKER_05 11:21

I've been saying that. Everybody I have dreams about stuff before it happens.

SPEAKER_03 11:25

Well, maybe we should talk after this, but everybody is to a certain degree. Maybe the thing you should be doing is honing your skills.

SPEAKER_05 11:32

True that, which is something I've been on the journey of doing, which is so crazy. This time it's a line.

SPEAKER_03 11:39

But my family's very, very psyche.

SPEAKER_05 11:41

Oh, I believe it just by what you're telling me now. But so I've been on this Epiphany journey, right? And just like I said to Harold prior to this, I grew up in a Catholic Christian split household. So, you know, I know the Bible, I I pray, etc. I always have. I think that's the Holy Spirit right now, babe. Um, I always have, but it's still that part in the Bible where you get the Bible isn't supposed to be taken quite literally, correct? There's a lot of gray areas. Yeah, there's a lot of gray areas, and Jesus himself is like a gray area, in my opinion, because the Holy Ghost speaks in parables, like he always says, you know, for those who see will see, those who hear will hear, etc. So when I started really digging deep into that into really seeing his words and parables, I realized like the our soul, our ghost, God is within us. God is in us, right? And if God is in us, we're not fully God, no, don't misconstrue. But if God is in us, then okay. You're you're made in his liking. Exactly. It states that. Exactly. And this goes back to the heaven and hell and purgatory. Because I oh my mom is big on if we can talk to the spirits, they're just stuck here. And I don't I don't believe that. I don't believe you can be stuck here as a spirit when you have the spirit of God within you. Like your soul is here. If you are stuck here, that's not a thing. So what I'm getting at is do you believe that there, or not do you believe, but what are your thoughts on there not being a heaven or a hell that this is already the promised land?

SPEAKER_03 13:34

Well, Jesse, I I maybe I'm different. I was born and raised uh with Catholicism. My mother is a very strict Catholic, still is to this day. So I grew up knowing things one way. Right. Let me give you an example. Um, Lent. And you guys know what Lent is? Yeah. You give up something on uh for Lent that you're gonna be.

SPEAKER_05 13:58

I try to give up cussing every year.

SPEAKER_03 14:01

Yeah, you don't eat meat on Fridays? Yeah. Well, years later, I thought it was important for me as a paranormal investigator to to reach back, and I was an altar boy until I was close to 15, but I wanted to learn the Bible. And I remember one day sitting at my mom's and brought up to her, tell me in the Bible where it speaks of Lent, where I need to give up uh something that I love, and I'm not on the meet on Fridays. Because, mom, nowhere in the Bible does it say that. So I want to tread lightly here, but I want to be very careful. That's Catholicism, that's the Catholic. So a lot of things you speak of are the Catholic, just heaven and hell and this purgatory. In Christianity, they're in the Bible. A lot of these things are never brought up or never even spoken of. Um, I'm not saying I'm I'm not over-religious, but I tend to stick to the things that I believe that I've studied and figured out for myself, be them some of them maybe not even correct. Um, I believe in Lucifer, I believe in evil, I believe in the demonic, I believe in his fallen disciples that were fallen angels, I believe in God is good, uh our archangels for one. I also believe in spiritual guides, animal guides, and the angels that are with us every day. I think if we are in tune, if we practice what we preach, if we practice these thoughts we're having, and we can just get a little bit deeper, I think we could evolve so much more. And I think the answers are there. I don't think by you and I reading the Bible over and over and over, because it's interpreted several different ways, or you attending Protestant, Baptist, Catholic, uh, we're gonna learn it all. I think we absorb what we can, uh, take from from what it is.

SPEAKER_05 15:56

Um it's also a manual. Like it's not, we're not like you know, it it says it multiple times, like in the Bible, and I grew up on it being stated like this isn't necessarily law, it's right, it's a manual to how ideally not word for word, how you should live, but like a skeleton.

SPEAKER_03 16:22

I just I get a little bit fearful when we get on the whole Bible religious thing because of everybody's different beliefs and and stuff, and my God, they they could be right, and I could be wrong. I mean, one day I'll find out for sure, but I mean hopefully it's not today, right? Right. Uh but some days. It's not gonna be today. I just think, you know, as Dr. uh Wayne Dyer once said, if you have the right to be kind or to be right, be kind, live somewhat normal and help people. I I think we're on whatever religion, whatever God's path, I think we're I think we'll be okay in the end if that makes sense. What that has to do with the ghost, I think there's a lot that's involved with that with ghosts, but that's my own personal beliefs, and I don't think we have time for me to share all that. But you know, my mind's always playing tricks on me and my mouth's always running. Does that make sense? Doesn't mean I'm always right. So once again, I didn't answer your question, did I?

SPEAKER_05 17:20

Honestly, I don't think these are even questions we could ever answer.

SPEAKER_03 17:23

Well, yeah, a lot of them we won't.

SPEAKER_05 17:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:26

She's got something to say. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 17:28

Well, I was just curious because Mike and I were talking about this earlier. We were wondering what events, and you kind of alluded to this earlier, but what events you know made you really interested in this?

SPEAKER_03 17:40

Well, for me, for me, and why don't you go first? What made you become a paranormal? We got your interest in the paranormal. Well, when I was about eight years old, I started I started trapping.

SPEAKER_04 17:52

I lived out in the country, so I was out in the middle of the night and this and that, and I always had a feeling somebody was watching me. Okay, and and one thing led to another, then other things start happening. I even I I believe in aliens too. Same because I thought I seen UFOs when I was at because I'm doing this at 2, 3 in the morning, you know, walking down a crick with nobody around me. You probably did out there.

SPEAKER_03 18:22

Yep. So when did you witness your first ghost?

SPEAKER_04 18:28

Uh I thought I was a I was about 15. I thought I seen something coming across the field at me.

SPEAKER_03 18:36

It's been a long time. You're you're what, 42 now, right? Yeah, I wish I was.

SPEAKER_04 18:41

I had to get that together. Wait, what? Yeah, I'm 78. Oh wow. Yeah, we're we're we're you don't look at but anyways. Thanks. Well, I did a lot I played a lot of sports and stuff. Anyways, I thought I'd seen this. I lived out in a place in my house where we were at, I got I found a lot of Indian stuff. A lot of arrowheads and this and that, so I could have it possibly could have been an Indian coming, you know, trying to find out what I was doing. And it went from there. And uh every once in a while I would hear stuff, and I where's that coming from? You know, there's nobody here.

SPEAKER_03 19:33

Yeah. Let it be known before you go any further, you with aliens. Bigfoot. It's real, I believe.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

You believe that's honey. I do too. I always believed in Bigfoot. And uh recently I just drove through the mountains of Virginia going to Virginia and I stopped at a Bigfoot shop and I talked to this um lady at the gas station. She said she's seen it about a few times. Yeah, people in her area have seen it. I think I think it's I think the world is too big to not believe in.

SPEAKER_03 20:00

I do uh if you get on Facebook, or not Facebook, if you get on YouTube, I've done five Bigfoot expeditions already. Some of them very interesting, some of them pretty spooky, some of them just didn't work out. I have our brother-in-law, Jeff, who likes went on the hocking heels, and he likes to drink uh vodkas all day, him and Becky. And by the time it's evening to go Bigfoot, they're a train wreck. I leave them back at the cabin. You're not going with me, so I'm out in the woods alone. So it listen, it's about two o'clock in the morning. I got the video cameras all light and set up, and then I'll get them why out my parental investigator. And uh, I decided to do a couple three knocks, you know, knock, knock, knock. I'm waiting and listening, listen, I'm not hearing these. I'm gonna give a couple whoops. So whoop, whoop, and hear off in the distance. Very real. That is, whoop, that is, and I'm that was a drunken uncle Jeff, staggers through the woods to come down and do that to me. He's never on my expedition big foot ever again. He's not welcome to attend, he's not going. Anyways, your question was I think it's good. My story was very different. I grew up in a haunted house. Everybody that ever lived there, including my father, eventually witnessed something very paranormal on a daily basis. Um, Henry the Shadow Man, who I used to see. Listen, this is a big old house. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven bedrooms upstairs, 40-foot hallway. My bedroom just so we happened to be right across from the attic door. I'd hear the footsteps up in the attic, hear it come down the stairs slowly. Listen, man, I'm scared to death. I'm just a kid. I got the covers pulled up, and I hear the door open. Nope. And then I see the shadow figure cross, and I'm just praying he just keeps going across my door. You can see the black. Just in the black as the lights go out, and then I hear him walking down the hallways, and it's not a good thing, but I'm thinking, thank God he's going after one of my brothers and not me. So listen, eventually fear turns into curiosity. I got a super eight video, which you can't feel anything paranormal. Click, click, click, click, click, watch on the video camera, and you'll reel the real recorders. And I'm trying to document this thing. I'm like 11 years old, 12 years old. I'm trying to document the paranormal. Um, and I think I did. Uh eventually, fear become curiosity. The curiosity, oh my god, you're involved in the paranormal. Word gets out, people know you're interested, stories start coming in. I just decided I think because nobody would believe anything I'm saying. Other people had the same problem. I I I wanted to help. I wasn't very good. I didn't have it, I had no clue when I was. Come on, I got a I got a super aid and a reel to reel with a 40-foot cord microphone. I I just thought I could help. Have you ever had any doubters become believers? I was just telling Destiny that earlier. I think it's very good that we're that we all try to remain open-minded skeptics. Don't become cynical. Yes, we've had people that uh I'm an instructor at Owens Community College. Class is beginning in August. Um it's a four-class, it's it's cool. Something you might want to check and do. It's on our Facebook page. Um people that took the class, I think just trying to prove me wrong, they come in cynical. But when class is over, I hope to god that they're somewhat um skeptical, not cynical anymore. Dan Cosmeyer, who never believed in anything, he became uh one of our best investigators ever. Worked with us for a few years. Um become a believer. What in the Maxwell House when he was shoved down the stairs or shoved on the stairs? Uh, I mean, come on, it's three o'clock in the morning. You know you're in a lockdown house. You run up the stairs where allegedly the client was shoved down the stairs several times. Dan gets shoved in. Dan was kind of a tough guy. He's on video. All right, you son of a you don't touch me. Well, bottom line is somebody touched him. At that point, he's got to turn around and say, if nothing else, I don't I don't understand what happened. Make sense? Yeah, but something that's unseen, unpresent, you thought was watching you. It knows your name because it it said, hey Dan. Um, and you were you were shoved. Same thing happened to Jeff, same stair, same next stair on this long staircase. The night after the same thing happened. I never told the two investigators what had happened. I was booking and banking everything for the end of the investigation. So skeptics, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:56

And what he was, them stairs that he was talking about, they would actually have this stuff that was would ooze out of the wood, and you could touch it, and it would be like a like a vase, and it would dip disappear, just disappear, it wouldn't it be gone. Uh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:16

It sounds like that one house in Indy, Gary, Indiana.

SPEAKER_03 25:19

Yeah, the one where uh uh Zach Begin bought. Yeah, the house is tore down now. They're still investigating just the foundation of the house, just the property. Man, he let all them free.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

No, no, Zach Begin's starting to run. Zach Begin, he's the ghost adventure, right? That had the uh okay.

SPEAKER_03 25:34

Listen, that's great entertainment. I don't really watch ghost shows. I haven't watched I mean, listen, that equipment was made to light up. If it never lit up and never did anything, why would you buy it? Right. So you buy this and 12 other things just like it. A lot of false positives. If you're you're investing, listen, if you're a ghost hunter, we're a cell block 375 and it goes up, high-five me, babe. That happens at somebody's house. You're gonna tell this poor lady who's going through hell, been to the church trying to get a priest in, whatever, that her house is haunted because that thing lit up. That's not fair to her. We we need that's why I say audio recorders, good video cameras with great lighting is more important than anything. I'm not gonna tell her for one minute her place is haunted because a bell or whistle went off. That's you just can't, as a paranormal investigator, you just can't do that. And the other problem is no offense against anybody. We have a lot of local groups that do that. Red Pod says that you have Lucifer in your house. That's your Uncle Charlie. That's not fair, Mike. That's not fair to anybody. How the hell do we know if that's Uncle? All right, let's see. We won't get me started again. No, I decided to you should I decided to be an instructor. Oh, it's freaking go over these things. You go into somebody's house, you gotta be pretty damn careful and tread light what you're doing. If it can like if it can be recreated or debunked, or if a light goes off, that doesn't mean it's haunted. And please don't tell this lady who's three and seven-year-old are sleeping beside her. Her husband works night, she's scared to death. Listen, we had a we had a client one time that worked during the day. Let's say she got off at five o'clock. Her husband worked the second ship. He didn't get off till 11. She wouldn't go home from five to eleven. She was too, she was scared to death to go into the house. And bad things were happening to her. She was held down, choked in bed, attacked in the shower, flung down the flag. I don't blame the poor girl. She's finally moved out of the house. She lives on the other side. She won't go within a mile of that house now. Those things are very real. You go in there, a light goes off, and you're confirming what's happening to her. You you gotta you gotta be real. That doesn't tell you who it is, what it is, why it is. Like I say, you got 40 hours of work in, now you're gonna investigate. You better roll up your sleeves because now you're going to work. And it could take years. We stay in touch with clients that are 15, 20 years old, don't we?

SPEAKER_04 28:06

Yeah, we did that one house, it was about eight years.

SPEAKER_03 28:09

Yeah. And I it's never over. It's never over.

SPEAKER_04 28:14

Never over. That was one I walked into, and I seen this one girl. She was on her knees, and then I said, and I felt there was something to do with voodoo in that house.

SPEAKER_03 28:25

She was dead.

SPEAKER_04 28:26

Oh no.

SPEAKER_03 28:27

32 years old, dead three hours later.

SPEAKER_05 28:29

Yep. That was one of your clients?

SPEAKER_03 28:32

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, listen, we've had hundreds of cases. A lot of them are okay. I mean, just get through them, figure out what you got, do them, do a house cleansing, do a house blessing, do an eviction, clear the house out, let people get their house back, stay in touch with them, teach them the proper way. Listen, uh very haunted house, not it's much like a car. You gotta change the tires, you gotta do an oil change. You might have to do a blessing once a week, three times a month, whatever. But some of these things, Destiny, if you want to do a podcast one time on six of our worst cases, there's been cases where I told him, let's get out of here. And I don't care how brave or seasoned you are, like, Butch, I think I'm gonna die here. You know, I mean, Butch, I trust with my life.

SPEAKER_05 29:16

Um you know what? We can get into one of those stories in a second, too.

SPEAKER_03 29:21

Listen, Destiny, this particular house he's talking about, that was one of those houses when I walked through the basement. I walked through some huge spider web that just wasn't there, the creepy the ceilings. What about the ceilings?

SPEAKER_04 29:34

Oh, the ceilings, there was water just dripping right through it. How rainforest we him and I was walking down the stairs from upstairs, coming down, and all of a sudden, this great big candle came flying at us, hit the wall, and it hit the wall. The TV was so put over.

SPEAKER_03 29:56

Do you have this filmed or was this a lot of it is when we funny thing, but this house was so bad. A lot of it is when the cameras weren't running. It happened when we just had our audio recorders running and doing a walkthrough. That's all. Listen, couch stay in the middle living room up on that TV up on the end of the couch. TV comes rolling down the refrigerator, flung across the kitchen sideways, all over the place.

SPEAKER_04 30:18

Food all over the place.

SPEAKER_03 30:19

And not happening before my eyes. Someone lived there? Yeah, family did poor family.

SPEAKER_02 30:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:25

Oh my gosh. Let me tell you a quick story. Can you got time or I mean this out? Listen, please. So about eight weeks into this investigation. There's we go, eight weeks into this investigation. That's a good 12 visits. Probably. A police officer was murdered there. And I don't want to give her name away. Kathy Nine, because we work Catholic Church doesn't want to talk about these things, okay? She came out, she's in the house talking to the homeowner. Comes out about half an hour later, and I was so on edge, she says, Marks on her arm. I was grabbed. Well, I'm in fight mode. Like, who who in the hell touched you, sister? Like, that ain't gonna fly here with me. Calm down, Harold. There was nobody there. Okay, we're in trouble here. We Catholic nuns just don't tell fibs, you know what I mean? Like, something's in there grabbing her.

SPEAKER_04 31:18

And believe it or not, this this went over to the house next door, too. Right.

SPEAKER_03 31:24

So I'm standing out there. We had a Baptist minister going. We had everybody. I was throwing everything but the kitchen sink at that house trying to get rid of it. So listen, this is a funny story. Oh man, he's he close to 100? Yeah. He's from Africa. Hey, okay. Hey, you can I stalk to you a minute? Well, sure. Who are you? My is Mr. Williams. You don't know as much as you think shoes knows. Oh, that's not creepy. Well, what do you mean? You's done, made them mad now. Made who mad? You know what I'm talking about. He says, let me tell you a story. This is a neighbor's house. This is why this house is so haunted. He says, every morning. I mean, I speak exactly the same way. I get up at 5 30. Not 5 25, not 5 35. 5 30 for years. He says, I get up and I says good morning to him. I goes down the stairs and I take one slice of bread and I puts it in the toaster. And then I makes me a cup of coffee. And then I go, takes a leak. I'm like, okay. He says, well, this morning, that's why I want to come over and talk to you today. This morning I get up at 5 30, says, good mornings, everybody. They are mad as hell. Mad at me, because you're in that house. I goes downstairs, puts my bread in the toaster, and puts my coffee on. And then I go takes me and my leek. I come out, horrible racket comes from the cellar. So I goes down the cellar. My toaster's gone. Hell, my toaster's gone. Horrible racket comes from the cellar. I go, my toaster's in the oven or in the dryer. Running. He says, I get my toaster, my breath. I go back upstairs and horrible noise again. I look, and my coffee is gone. It's in the dryer now, too.

unknown 33:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 33:49

Listen, this is this. He I swear he was practicing voodoo. He had a lot to do with that haunting. He was very involved in all of it. Listen, some cases will haunt you for the rest of your life. And I will always tell you, this is one of them. The family moved out, they had no choice. Um, her 30-year-old daughter, like Butch said, was kneeling and praying in the living room at four o'clock in the morning, 6 30, she was dead. They said natural causes. I mean, I mean, yeah, we've had some bad cases. We have we have one.

SPEAKER_05 34:26

Why would he want to do that to her though? If he were well, I don't think he was doing it.

SPEAKER_03 34:30

I don't think he knew what he was doing. He just conjured and conjured all kinds of crap from you know you find books of the dead and voodoo books.

SPEAKER_04 34:38

I found all kinds of books and yet, you know, and I was investigating the stairs. Yeah, did I want to touch them? I don't even know. I didn't touch them. I just looked at them.

SPEAKER_05 34:47

Yeah, that's great. I'm so glad we got on this topic of voodoo, uh black magic, etc.

SPEAKER_03 34:55

Um, is I have a voodoo doll that was made by her uh her granddaughter in New Orleans. I have a haunted.

SPEAKER_05 35:02

Oh, they're from New Orleans?

SPEAKER_03 35:03

They they originated from New Orleans, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 35:06

Well, now it makes sense not to like stereotype type cats.

SPEAKER_03 35:12

You visit Lady Javel's gravesite, you might want to leave a gift and show some respect. Yo, I don't do it. That's the only way I would do it.

SPEAKER_05 35:19

I am listening I'm kind of scared to go to New Orleans, period. Like, I hear stories about like if you shake a hand sometimes, you're boom, I don't know, like you're cursed. It's just like, dude, I'm just a friendly person, please.

SPEAKER_03 35:34

Voodoo is like any other religion. There's good and then there's bad.

SPEAKER_05 35:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:37

Voodoo is not all just woohoo, it's my god, it's bad stuff like that.

SPEAKER_05 35:41

So and is that the case your only voodoo case? Is that your only voodoo case?

SPEAKER_04 35:46

And I think you know early, that was yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:49

We've had a lot of great cases, some not so great.

SPEAKER_04 35:52

We actually brought brought his anne in, and she did something black mirroring, and she found a porthole like in between the two houses. It was passing through the houses, so they were going back and forth.

SPEAKER_03 36:06

Do we have any physical proof of that? Absolutely not. That's one of those things that I say. That's like a medium said it, although she's very good and said they were passing through the houses. Oh, yeah. You can't come up with physical evidence to prove that. Do I believe it? Absolutely. Do I tell the client that? Absolutely not. Cool.

SPEAKER_09 36:26

Do you mind if I ask a quick question? No, I asked. Um, so I was wondering what because you've talked about how REM pods aren't like they're not good evidence. You wouldn't want to tell someone that their house is haunted because something flashed. So, what would you say is the best evidence of activity? And I'm curious about EVPs and how you what you think of it.

SPEAKER_03 36:50

Oh, listen, this is that's a great may I that's a great question. Evps, electronic voice phenomenon. They come in classes, A, B, C, D, etc., etc. Um, Hendrik Jurgison in the Swiss Alps was, I think, one of the very first guys to capture an EVP. So yeah, I'm always going back to class. He uh I love this, he was recording bird sound, bird calls. And he's out of the mountains recording bird calls. He brings them in one day, and he hears his mother speaking to him. And it's like, oh no, that's not an incredible thing. The incredible thing is his mother's been dead for 10 years. Um, that's when EVP started. Here's the other thing we need to know. Out of the tens of thousands of recorded documented EVPs that may be real, one in 12 are negative in nature. We have to be careful. There's lies and deceit, especially with Ouija boards. I'm never talking about it. If you're investigating, you want to know who you're talking to, what role they play in here, what their capabilities are. I'm not ever gonna go into a place where I have no idea what the hell I'm getting into because of the negativity in the world. Um, but EVPs are great. I if you take the class, I'll I can help you do a take the class, guys. Yeah, come on. I'm just saying I can I can help you walk through EVPs, but in my humble opinion, and I'm 66, um, I'm old school, there's no better documentation equipment to be used than a good quality video camera with ultraviolet lighting, infrared lighting, good lighting that you can see right through and cut right through the darkness with a good mic system on it. We can once again back to class. As humans, we only have a scale, a spectrum of what our eyesight can see. We only have that same spectrum what we can hear. Um, whales, uh, dolphins communicate, elephants communicate for 10 miles uh with the hooves of their feet. We don't hear any of that. These recorders, good audio digital recorder, can pick up these things outside the spectrum of our visual and our audio that we can ever see or hear. And that's where they say most of the entities lie. And I find that over the years to be truthful. There's times I'm talking, they're answering, I have no clue they're answering. That's why when you do an EVP session, ask your short question very clearly. Don't be like me and ask two questions at once or keep talking. Shut your mouth and wait for the answer. And maybe 60 seconds later, it could be a minute later. I've even captured EVPs. This is funny, where I've asked questions and I talk so fast, you can tell them a big mouth. Um, where I ask a question, don't wait long, ask another question. Well, I'm getting EVPs, but not to the question I just asked, to the question I asked prior to that. They're not a big mouth. And I think if they really could talk, they'd say, Harold, can you shut up a minute? I'm trying to talk to you. Like, let me answer. Yeah, let me please. I actually sometimes tell them to slow down. Yeah, so I think the answer is I don't. I think everything else is really cool. And there's I gotta be honest, some of the equipment I really like. Um, and the list goes on and on. In the last 10 years, the equipment has grown a hundredfold. I like the music boxes motion because there's nothing better going into a room. Yeah, they got the they got the rim pot in them. Yeah, it's yeah, they get to make everything now. I'm so glad we're on the topic of equipment, though. But Destiny, listen, okay, if you're scared to death, and this is very real to you, and your husband wants you to get checked mentally because he's not hearing anything. Your kids are scared. Do you want a teddy bear saying everything that's your experience is very real? Throw that teddy bear out the deal. Yeah, absolutely. Do I like him? Absolutely. Is it a REM pot? Absolutely. Listen, a good quality digital audio recorder and a video camera. You tell me what's better than that. If we could capture this thing on on video of something moving, a shadow person crossing through, a light coming on, a covered door opening or closing. I mean, that is some really good evidence. There's nothing better than the evidence of me saying, hi, my name's Harold. What's your name? And then the voice says, I'm Mike. I mean, you tell me that going off, or do you want that EVP? I'm Mike. And we've captured hundreds of thousands of EVPs.

SPEAKER_04 41:34

There's sometimes you actually can hear it before you listen to the recording. Right, if it's in our spectrum of hearing, yeah. A lot of things are outside it. I we were down in in Athens, down at Ohio University on the ridges, and we were in this piano room, and they we had a voice come on that says, told us to get out because they didn't want us in there at that time.

SPEAKER_03 41:57

I still think that might have been children because they're throwing rocks at us.

SPEAKER_05 42:02

Wait, what? Like the same as like ghost children, or they're all ghosts. Okay. I was just making it.

SPEAKER_03 42:10

So this building been closing. It's been tornadoes.

SPEAKER_04 42:13

That same building I got shoved down. And I turned around and I thought it was one of these guys messing around. You know better than that. There was nobody around. I was walking down this little hallway and boom. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 42:27

Right from behind. Yeah, he's a nut that wants to go into the old Saint Asylum. Jesus God. That was another place I placed in the city.

SPEAKER_05 42:33

Not gonna lie, I do too, but I know I'm gonna like be peeing myself when I'm inside.

SPEAKER_03 42:39

Three o'clock in the morning is much different than three o'clock in the afternoon. I can tell you that when you're in a catacomb, you're 20 feet under the ground, and you're you know, quarter mile out of these ridges and these tunnels called the death tunnels, and you hear a woman say help. Listen, you I'm praying this. I was I would be praying. I want to go back to three in the afternoon out in the daylight. Yeah, I mean, some things just rattle you. Where it came from, you know there's nobody down there. You hear the gurney rolling, you're picking it all up on audio.

SPEAKER_05 43:08

Remember how your your story that you said of what how you became a ghost investigator or a paranormal investigator? You mentioned Native Americans or you know, uh yeah, Native American hiding objects.

SPEAKER_02 43:23

You are the Native American aspect.

SPEAKER_05 43:25

I was gonna say, so am I. Um, have you ever investigated uh or planned to like one of their burial grounds?

SPEAKER_04 43:35

Like cemetery mines in Newark, in Newark, Ohio.

SPEAKER_03 43:38

I never have.

SPEAKER_04 43:40

That mound that serpent mound, I was I I did that. How was that? It it was it was all right, but it was in the middle of the day. I was getting ready, I was at a hockey tournament down there. Okay, and I spent probably an hour or so, you know, walking on top of it and this and that, and trying to get something on the report. Carter and then I just didn't get nothing.

SPEAKER_03 44:02

I got a parallel, I got a Native Americans. I I attend all the powers, a lot of powers. Every that's my dream. Buttonburg, Buttonwood, and Perrysburg every September. They walked before us. Yeah, Perrysburg, right in Buttonwood Park. Uh so listen, I'm in Bayview, and I got all the stage and stuff that I want a shaman to bless for me, for I can use it for house blessings and cleansing. It was very, very important to me. So I get to, it's like a weekend pow. So I get there and I stand in line for the longest time, and I got all the stuff I need to be blessed by him. One of the greatest lessons in the world. So finally I get to him, right? And I don't care what it costs. I got a couple hundred bucks in my pocket. Just hook me up, show me some of the sweet grass and some of your stuff, and man, I'm gonna knock the hell out of these spirits, get them out of these houses. So I look at him asking me, he looks at me, he goes, What's the matter with you? I said, nothing. I'm a turn over the vest. Come on. He says, he he punished me. He made me go sit out, sit out in the yard with the tall grass and don't come back in until I hear the grass talking to me. Like, what the hell? He said when I got back, when I finally came back in, he had all kinds of stuff boxed up. He says, Will you do me a favor, go back out to tall grass and bless all this stuff from me because I can sell it for 20% more once you bless it? There was a great lesson taught to me. He finally named me Listening Oak. Like I wanted my Native American name to be like wild lion or you know, big wolf. Yeah, listening oak. I said, Why do you give me that name? It's sarcasm. You don't listen very well. I saw a shaman. I learned that that was one of my greatest Native American stories. A great encounter with a very intelligent, and listen, I everybody worshipped him. He was a wise man. He sounds like it. He said, listen, if it's in your heart, bless it yourself. Sell it for whatever the hell you want to sell it for, but bless it yourself. Why would you come all these miles stand in this line for me to bless something before I can sell it for a buck fifty instead of a buck? Or you can. Go out and listen. Don't come back into the grass talks to you. And hopefully the grass can teach you a lesson, listening oak. But you mean shut your mouth while you're out there.

SPEAKER_06 46:19

This is the listening oak on our podcast right now.

SPEAKER_03 46:22

That's my Native American name. I'd love that. No, I want big wolf, mean tiger lion. I want something good. Flying eagle, something you know. I mean, nope. Listening oak tree. Listening oak. Which means your lesson here today is bless everything yourself, get the hell out of my TP and listen to what people are telling you. Okay, that's my lesson for the year. Yeah, what?

SPEAKER_05 46:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:46

That's that's quite beautiful though. It is. It's a story that well, obviously, I still tell that story to this day, and that was 30 years ago. But still says, listening oak, listen, we're talking.

SPEAKER_05 46:57

Since we're on the topic of Native Americans, I've always wondered because I love Native American culture, any anything about them. Like I I want to go to one of uh what is it called? The Pow POWs. Yeah, I want to go to one of those so bad, and I didn't know it was even that close in Perrysburg.

SPEAKER_04 47:17

They have opening ceremonies and they moved it down to Waterville or area. That's mine.

SPEAKER_03 47:23

Yeah, but you got to tell me, yeah. Listen, they get up every morning bustling, there's dancers all day long, all dressed in full attire, two-stepping. They have all kinds of vendors with tents going to be. That's the dance, you know. That's the dance to do. Yeah, listen. No, I know exactly what you're doing. Don't dress up the eagles, like it's but one of my biggest. Blow your little kids right on and up to grownups.

SPEAKER_05 47:48

Yeah, blow you away. Okay, maybe I'm a little bit biased when I ask you this, both of you. But I grew up on obviously Pet Cemetery, the movie, and ever since it's like I kind of not correlate, but I always wondered why is it Native American um burial grounds or history of any sort that always has this crazy haunted story or something.

SPEAKER_03 48:19

Because most of those are are linked to Native American burial ground. But here's the thing, Destiny. If we walk out this front door and you dig up that concrete deep enough, we're gonna find Native American. This whole land was Native American before we got here. Amen. Native Americans, this is all Native American land. Every listen, Christopher Columbus didn't discover America. He discovered Native Americans, and they said, Who the hell are you? The whole world, whole you part of this, the whole country's full of so I don't think there's much truth to that. That maybe because some of them might have been a sacred site, but hell, I I got friends of mine. This is a true story, and this this one kind of freaked me out. This goes back probably 20 years ago. I was taking Jim to a family reunion right outside of Tipp in Ohio. They had clowns and stuff hired. So we drive up there, Jim's about 80 years old. We drive up there, and I see this Indian chief step out of the woods as we're pulling in. And I said to Jim, my god, man, that costume is elaborate. But I could see the clowns, but why would they have a Native American? So we pull in and the clowns there, but I don't see them, I don't see the Indian chief anymore. So I asked the dog, who was the owner of the house, what happened to the Indian? And he just stood there and looked at me, called over to his wife Ann, and said, Come here a minute. Harold just saw him too. That was all Native American Mountains in their backwoods area. So it could have been a sick, it was a burial site. I mean, obviously they're buried everywhere, but maybe a chief or something higher. So listen, we go down into his basement, he shows me this really old picture. Looked just like the guy I saw. Oh, wow. Looked just like the name. Can I explain it to you? I not in a million years. Has that ever happened to me prior? No. Ever since? No. But that's that's another Native American. Wow. I swear to you guys, I saw him. He stepped out and I thought, you know, all the clouds and stuff dressed in costume and you know, the bounce house and that's cool. But why would anybody come dressed as an Indian? It's so real.

SPEAKER_05 50:32

Right.

SPEAKER_03 50:33

Yeah. That's true story. I think that might answer your question.

SPEAKER_05 50:36

No, it does. And I want to rephrase how I said that. I don't I didn't, I hope that didn't come off in any quick way.

SPEAKER_01 50:44

Let's see, this is the Maumee River. Yeah. Let's think about all the way to Fort Megs.

SPEAKER_05 50:48

I was gonna say, because like all I heard growing up about Native American culture and history, which is why I think I love their culture and history now, is basically all the bad that was, you know, correlated with them as far as hauntings, burial grounds, etc. So I think that's kind of why I always had that wonder because I was always getting one end of it. And it's kind of how you the world is in general. Like when they don't like someone or something, you you get all the bad about them. Just like if you meet someone who doesn't like me, you'll get every every flaw of mine. So I want to rephrase that for the audience listening to. Um, yeah, I I don't correlate Native Americans with any badness at all, if that came off in that way.

SPEAKER_03 51:37

For the most part, they're very spiritual people, very spiritual people, very good people, beautiful, very fair people. And I don't want to get into it because I want to start. I think a lot of cases we wronged them. Oh in their land and completely agree. And I I think the nastiness that you did see from them, listen, you slaughter my whole family, I'm gonna get a little bit nasty, you know, and I don't matter how good I am. No, I feel like we are rich, we are rich in Native American, the Maumee tribe. Listen, the list goes if you cross the river with not a quarter mile, you'll see a sign right outside the grain elevators or you know, I can't remember what I think it might have been the Maw Me tribe. Head to take River Road right into Maumee, Ohio. The all the streets are Navajo, Cherokee, they're all named. I mean, we are very rich in uh so I'm sure, like I said, if we go out here and go down towards a river, that's that's and it's all Native American uh burial ground to me.

SPEAKER_04 52:37

Sacred, I I don't know, but we're probably do you ever see them sticks that them guys use? You know, the spirit. I actually have one in my computer room that was made by an Indian. It's got a deer, deer antler on the end of it, and it's got deer thing right down the host shaft of the the stick. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03 52:59

I got it hanging up and I broke the antlers off it. I was young complaints of nonsense.

SPEAKER_09 53:05

No, no, that's so cool. No, well, here's a question for you guys, and I it kind of relates to this. Um, in your experience with your knowledge, why do you think that why do you think a spirit would remain here on earth? Because we've been talking about the Native Americans, and it could be that they're angry, or it could be that they were very spiritual, so they remained for that reason.

SPEAKER_03 53:33

Can I get, you know, I first of all, I don't know how much knowledge we have in this, but I think over the years we found several reasons. Um, unfinished business. Listen, if I was to die, unfortunately, in a in a car actually the way home, Becky's Becky's gonna be in for a world of shit because I'm just gonna play with that remote control. I'm gonna screw with the dog, and holy shit, I'm gonna haunt that place. I don't want to go. Could be one unfinished business. Uh a sudden death, you don't even know you're dead. I think in all the years we've done this, we've encountered a lot of different reasons why the place is haunted. Uh a very tragic, very quick, traumatic death could do it. Um, you don't even know you're dead. There's been places where we told them, listen, I I gotta be, I have no idea why some people stay in the hell that that place that they're in. And I think sometimes when we talk to them after a post-investigation, you can go on. Um, you have loved ones that that are there. Why do you stay here and scare these children when we know you're not doing anything bad? The children don't know. They're they're scared because they're seeing ghosts. Listen, your husband's on the other side, your wife's on the other side, you your mom, your dad, your your siblings are on, boom, they go. I don't know. I don't know why some choose to stay here.

SPEAKER_05 55:00

I think that's part of the reason why there is like ghost investigations, or at least on my end or our end, as far as us trying to enter the world of being uh, I don't know, kind of sort of paranormal investigators. It's more of that, can we figure it out the more and more that we do it, the more and more that we try to talk.

SPEAKER_03 55:23

Sometimes, sometimes not. Sometimes you just yeah, and sometimes you just get something that let me put it to you this way. If you're a good person in life, you help feed the poor, you attend church, whatever you do, you uh work as a senior center, you do a lot of good things. Um when you die, you that is who you still are. Um this is that energy that um Einstein talked about. Uh if you are a bad person, you rob old ladies, you bump off the carryout, you may have murdered somebody, you just still give a shit about anybody. When you die, that's your energy as well. So sometimes when a place is haunted, and sometimes when we get fight back, um, or they get nasty or doing things to intensely scare things, they were nothing but I mean it's Uncle Joey's an asshole in life, he's still an asshole. I mean, don't trust that ghost. I mean, he'll stab people, he'll he'll steal from his grandmother. He he's just that nasty nigga, and sometimes we mistake that with the devil, and it's furthest thing from the devil. But a client will call you and say, This is evil, this is demonic. No, it's just Uncle Joe being an asshole again.

SPEAKER_05 56:40

Yes, same way.

SPEAKER_03 56:41

And Uncle Joe take a hike, get the hell out of here, and there's things we can do to help convince him that leaving is the best thing because only bad things are gonna happen after that. And sometimes you get Sister Uh Marianne, for instance. You get that warm feeling on your face, and you smell the smell of cookies, and just pleasant honey.

SPEAKER_05 57:04

And that's so magical. That reminded me of when my grandmother, Granny Gillow, she passed away, and it's something she did to me that I hate it, but she's just one of those. She just does what you hate because it's her form of showing love. And it was her pinching my butt because it hurt so bad. There's a there's there's no interesting stuff like that. When she passed away, guess what I felt on my butt 20 morning. I I was like, Granny, not right now, I'm not in the mood.

SPEAKER_03 57:33

Like that is funny.

SPEAKER_05 57:34

I'm sad right now, don't do it.

SPEAKER_03 57:36

So that's the kind of hauntings I like. I like I like nice, pleasant hauntings. Yeah, we're getting dueled for these darker things. You know, you gotta, you know, like if you don't have the energy to take on a private investment, and maybe that's why we're ghost hunting so much. Um, although we do have a couple things going on right now, but if you don't have the energy, you gotta be honest, guys. I I don't have the 200 hours or a lifetime to invest in this. Let me get somebody who I trust or somebody you know who I feel is much better than myself. Believe it or not, a lot of our group was RF students. Oh, really? Yeah. Best place to pick up, best place to pick up investigators. Yeah. Uh and we've had some well we we have a our group, I think, is very strong. Yep. I write from Amber, Dane, all of them. They're all very Dana is very good.

SPEAKER_04 58:26

They're all very, very good. In the same in the same token, we were at the Collingwood one night. One afternoon we were at a it was a Paracon thing convention. And uh I walked down to this one place supposedly where they used to put the dead bodies in the wintertime because they couldn't dig, you know, the way for the ground to flop. Anyways, this great big thing come and it came down, it smoked me. Platform, stage platform.

SPEAKER_05 59:00

Yeah, divider. Oh my gosh. I was just recently in there actually, last week. Weird. This was down. I thought I should add that in.

SPEAKER_03 59:09

It's not all, it's not all bad, but there's some honorary spirits there. Oh, for sure. Yeah, there's some honorary spirits there. Not just like everybody's also the golden child, and the other one's just a little bit Audrey. Yeah, ghosts are the same way. You all kinds, you know, from A to Z, you see all kinds of different ghosts and encounter them. I just don't like uh I don't like the nasty negative ones. I just and I don't listen to your truth, I don't like to be afraid.

SPEAKER_05 59:36

And specifically, you don't like to be afraid, you say? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 59:39

Do you like being scared of that? No. Oh no. Nobody does. And the thing is, if you was to be quite honest, if you do what we do, eventually, eventually, you're you're gonna be fearful at some point of time. I can't tell you how many times in the middle of night, I was like, but just get me the hell out of here. I can't breathe. I just I don't want to be here anymore. I'm gonna die here, but you're gonna let me die. You remember one time when we were down in West Point Pleasant, West Virginia? I tell you how you get afraid. We're doing the Mothman. So we're in the TNT bunkers. You do your research on the study of that, and uh TNT bunkers. This is where Mothman has been seen. 10-foot wingspan, seven feet tall, blah blah blah. And so we're in another we're in a bunker, which is a dome built into the ground, darker than dark.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:30

Oh, it's the whole army depot thing that's dynamite, they store dynamite, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:34

T. That's why they call the TNT bunker. And I'm shining the flashlight, he's in there with me. I think Oka Jump was with us. And somebody did a 3D mural of the Mothman on the wall, and I'm telling you, it looked real glow in the dark, and I spin around, I shined a flashlight, and there's Mothman grabbing and I screamed, Bon! Remember when I started to run all these years later, you still get a kick out of it. But says, Yeah, the brave ghost, yeah. You're brave ghosts and arrow. You never get afraid. You saw you saw me on the video, mom making waves off the door.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:11

I mean, it wasn't it was so dark in there you couldn't couldn't see your hand like that close.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:17

No, see, no. You're gonna you're gonna do something that's gonna scare the hell out of you eventually.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:23

Yeah, that thing was yeah, look just like it was coming right at it, right at you.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:28

I remember being at the Maxwell one night.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:30

You know what? So sorry, but we're gonna continue this conversation, but I need a pee, guys. So if anyone needs a bathroom break, let's take five.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:40

I'll go, I'll go out smoke and hip syrup. You want to be. Are you sure you want to carry it?

SPEAKER_06 1:01:46

Okay, guys, we're back.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:49

We just had to take a destiny pee break, and um now I want to introduce my equipment. Let me tell you, it's quite serious, folks. It's in a bag of unicorns because that's how we get down. Okay, so this is all of my ghost equipment, I guess you can call it. Hopefully, you guys can hear me, and hopefully, I'm not theater voicing you. But so these are my noise cancellation headphones, right? Yep, boom.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:22

You can use them with a good quality audio recorder, would you like to do or your or your video camera?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:28

I have a question.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:28

So, have y'all heard of the estus method? Can I keep may I? Then we're gonna get right back to that. That whole Estes method, listen to me. You did you you can either is it true or not? Yes, it is. Absolutely true. Okay, so listen. He started it. We did listen. I here's the thing. We do a lot of EVP sessions. We are in the Buxton Inn, the haunted Buxton Inn hotel. Okay, we were where I don't know, Abraham Lincoln slept there, a lady in a blue dress had died there, or something, blah blah blah. So I got I got Becky with the head, noise cancellation headphones on, on the bed, and we're doing an EVP session. I'm asking the questions, she's answering. I didn't trust Becky, even though I trust her with my life. Could she be reading my lips or could she still be hearing me talk over her noise cancel? So I put blindfolds on her. Noise cancellation headphones again, and I went into the next room and I yelled, The room's on fire, oh my god, get out. She never budged. I knew she couldn't hear me. I began to ask the questions, and I do trick things. Like I said, if this is really a ghost and you can really hear me and interact with me, I'm gonna count the five, and you're gonna tell me what numbers next. I go, one, two, three, four, five. She yells out six. I said, Oh my god, Butch, that was awesome. She yells out, awesome. Now, was it Amy and Amy and who? Who does uh the ghost show where you saw the Estes method?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:25

Amy and I've seen it from um YouTubers I watched.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:28

Okay, yeah, Sam and Colby.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:30

This session I did because I didn't trust the receiver, which I do, but I wanted to make foolproof. I did that two years before the Estes Method. So I'm watching this Amy and Andy, whatever his name is. Kinder Spirits. Kindred Spirits. And they're in the Stanley Hotel, which I also investigated, uh in uh right outside of Denver, Colorado. And uh they commenced to do this and saying it's the first time ever done. I've been doing it for two years. Listen, I'm groundbreaking. I'm just anyways. I always tell everybody that don't believe that for a minute that they invented that. I did. There's a lack of trust.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:12

Well, you need your props for it.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:14

Yeah, we should be called the inventor in Ohio. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:18

Yes, this method is not from Estes Park, Colorado. It's from Toledo, Ohio. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:23

Speaking of that, I really hope to one day go to that hotel.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:27

I was videotaping this whole thing too. So I videotaped the whole thing being done.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:33

Amen.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:35

That's perfect. You can use this with a good audio recorder or good video kit.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:39

Glad you said that because where is it? Where is it? Okay. I have this, but after hearing you speak about this ones, this is a great video too, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:51

Spirit box. Spirit box. Does it have batteries?

SPEAKER_06 1:05:54

Make sure. I don't need to have it.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:56

What it is, what I do like, this is an old school one. This is the SP7.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:01

So that means it's good.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:02

Yeah, it is, it is good. It's a good one. Um, use this with your headphones at all times. Um, I prefer FM over AM, but you could turn this to AM, FM. What it does is it basically scans up to 300 words per minute. Now let's take that, let's break that down. If I'm saying my name is Harold, can you tell me your name? And for you to say my name is Mike, okay, uh, if it's scanning 300 stations per minute, you just scan, let's say, 80 stations to get two words. So if you hear one word, it's one thing. If you hear two words that in conjunction that tell a storyline, that's quite amazing because you took one second, not even one second, from 60 different radio stations to say so. If it says my name is Mike, you scan 300 stations, and what are the odds of that of it being that? So when they're on, they're on when they're cold. I find them really cold. Now I picked up somewhere, and I don't want to cuss on this thing, but it says F U. Oh, there's no radio station in the world that's gonna say F U or get out. Because they say get in and out, you had to go through maybe a hundred different stations to get that. So this was first used by uh Jason Howes from uh and Grant from Ghost Hunters. A good uh night vision camera might be another good thing.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:32

Night vision camera right here, babe. It's infrared things you said.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:37

I I remember when I walk around like a dork. Use the tripod.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:41

Yeah, hey, and where'd you get it from? Go shop?

SPEAKER_04 1:07:43

Uh go stop.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:45

Go stop, yeah. Yep, yeah, yeah. That's where I got it.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:48

Out of New Jersey or something, somewhere. Yeah, yeah. They got the clip where you can wear this on your chairs, you wear it on your head.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:55

That's like the cake juice. We don't even use them anymore. I did a lot of Bigfoot investigating with these.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:01

Um I'm not gonna do Bigfoot investigating. I think Bigfoot investigation.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:05

I think I think any uh any good quality, you know, video device big camera or or regular video or audio is a way to go.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:14

These are night vision lights, thingamajiggers. You open the box. I saw something. Yep, ting on your ass.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:28

Can you hook this to your camera?

SPEAKER_06 1:08:30

Guys, that is the end of the curious folks, but listen, they'll be back.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:37

They'll be back. I already feel it and know it and love it. I hope you enjoy this and I hope you become ghost adventurers or with us, but do it properly. You can say bye, you can say it you want to leave them with.